Is activism in the Iranian diaspora in crisis? Is the discourse really toxic, as is often heard? And what are the perspectives of the alliance around former Crown Prince Reza Pahlevi and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Shirin Ebadi? Journalist Susan Zare, rapper Basstard, author Mehrnousch Zaeri-Esfahani and children's and young adult author Isabel Abedi in an interview.
At the end of the year, voices have increased that activism in the Iranian diaspora in support of the revolution is in crisis or even stagnant. That it has remained a discourse among Iranians and Iranians in exile. Do you share this assessment?
Susan Zare: In fact, I felt these voices were not that loud. This revolution is not a sprint, but a marathon, and solidarity abroad also needs strength and endurance. Reading and processing this terrible news needs resilience here as well, and everyone deals with it differently. I think that after the last few months, which have been so strong, it is quite natural that there are also short phases in which the activism from person to person sometimes seems less. Here, I think, we also need gentleness towards each other. Every activist and journalist has his or her own fate to deal with. Whether it is family and relatives in Iran, or their own psychological handling of all the suffering. Therefore I think it is wrong to condemn. We should figure out together, how we can strategically ensure even more attention and consistency.
Basstard: Yes, of course, signs of exhaustion are inevitable at a certain point. When you spend every free minute of every day for four months dealing with kidnapping, torture, rape and murder, at some stage you're just mentally at the end of your rope. But still I exprience, every day people who backing-up and motivating each other to keep on going. I also see caring for each other, like when I post an extreme amount of stories, someone comes up and says, "Hey, you got a lot done today, give yourself a break so you'll still have the power for tomorrow." We're dealing with so much misanthropy and hate, and at the same time we're rebuilding with love.
Mehrnousch Zaeri-Esfahani: At the end of the year, in the dark time, we turn within ourselves and take inventory of events and feelings. Activities often shift from the outside to the inside in order to draw new strength and carry on wiser and stronger.
Isabel Abedi: I had a severe lumbago at Christmas, after trying to carry an old Persian chest up the stairs by myself. This experience was very symbolic for me and meets what you also describe. I was externally immobilized, internally raging thoughts and feelings, a hovering between resignation and confidence - but above all the desire for gentleness. I like this word very much. Because gentleness and courage are not opposites. And because sometimes standing still is so important in order to get going again. In every crisis there is always an opportunity.
Mehrnousch Zaeri-Esfahani: Yes, I feel the same way. Like you said, its not to speak of a crisis in our case, rather of a powerful moulting, metamorphosis, development....
Isabel Abedi: And as far as the "exile" here and the inland over there are concerned: Isn't it all about survival in Iran? About survival? And again and again also about dying? Actually, what I want most of all is appreciation, encouragement and empathy from non-Iranian people. And a "discourse" is basically a "back and forth conversation". We can afford that here in the West - even publicly - without risking our lives for it. What are your thoughts about this ?
Mehrnousch Zaeri-Esfahani: Absolutely! Of course, those of Iranian origin and their supporters in the diaspora have the opportunities and freedoms to conduct democratic discourse that the Iranian people at home do not have due to censorship and dictatorship. If it is not in exile that people openly discuss, dissect, argue, conclude without taboos, then where? This is necessary, and this is an important sword that only we can forge here. Why should this be questioned or discussed in turn?
There is a lot of talk about the debate becoming more toxic abroad. Is that the case? What can be done about it?
Basstard: I have often experienced toxic debates in the context of opposing political goals. One wants the monarchy back and considers everyone else to be communists or People's Mujahideen; the other is a nationalist and sees division behind any solidarity for Kurds. These debates have been our big problem for 43 years - it's like a miracle that with the murder of Jina Mahsa Amini, suddenly so many diaspora Iranians woke up from their sleep and became active together in solidarity, across classes and ages. I think the great consensus here is a free democratic basic order after IR, and we must stick to that. I perceive these toxic debates, fortunately, only from individuals. The masses, both in Iran and abroad, have no problem showing solidarity with the Kurds or Baluchis and are very skeptical of a renewed monarchy or the People's Mujahideen.
Isabel Abedi: First of all, in an open society, I can decide what I want to open myself up to. I can look at the toxic debates that show that in such a balancing act, things - and people - naturally get out of balance sometimes. But I can also look at all the cohesion, all the support, that Maryam Blumenthal, for example, described with glowing thanks in one of her recent posts on Instagram. I can only echo that. My overriding feeling towards the diaspora right now is: gratitude. It strengthens me. That keeps me going.
Mehrnousch Zaeri-Esfahani: If you go back to the 1980s, you can see the decades of stagnation and predominantly mutual blame or even contempt for each other's groups. Many of the first generations in the Diaspora were too proud or too patriotic to appreciate the political, ethnic and social diversity of the Iranian people and the Iranian Diaspora. This led to a very unfortunate splintering of the exile community. Many from the second generation and from the generations after were less and less able to deal with these hostilities from year to year. People slowly got used to this situation and each and everyone had built a life of their own. We had all fallen asleep. And then, on September 16th, the miracle happened. How did you feel about it, Isabel, who has the valuable view from the outside, who was suddenly drawn into the movement from the middle of September without any bias? How did you recognize this new unity, this miracle? Are there images that you saw? You are an incredibly good observer....
Isabel Abedi: Actually, right now I feel above all like a child being taken by the hand. By newfound sisters like you. There's a lot of amazement in me - in addition to all the terror. And I feel it like a kind of awakening. In myself, but also on the outside. You and I made an impressive discovery at the same time. We scrolled "down" through Instagram accounts from the diaspora, to the time before Jina Amini's murder. Her image almost magically separates time into a "before" and an "after." Where before there were fashion, books, cars, laughing selfies at sports, in the park, on vacation ... from mid-September 22 the spotlight has turned to the people in Iran - and also Afghanistan and Kurdistan. I discover so many people, so many destinies that were in the dark for so many years. Now they are in the light. This touches me more deeply than I can put into words here. And I feel it is anything but toxic. It is often deeply painful, yes. But in the long run, I firmly believe, it is healing.
Ali Khademolhosseini, a German-Iranian human rights activist, criticizes the lack of coordination and common ground in the actions of activists in the diaspora - and the passive waiting for the exiled messiah. Is he right?
Basstard: I wouldn't be so critical of that. Rather, I would look at the positive developments and build on them. It was clear to us from the start that this would be a long struggle. After these tough four months, we're no longer at the very beginning, but we're also still a long way from our goal. We have built trust among ourselves and realized that there are a lot of us, that we can have a big impact and that we share the same goals. That's incredibly valuable and a great foundation to build on.
Isabel Abedi: I was born in Germany. I grew up in a German environment. My Iranian father and my Iranian "fatherland" were taboo throughout my childhood. I had to come to terms with that. But I have never experienced a revolution. You have, Mehrnousch. You, my sister in spirit, had a different childhood than I did. What is your answer to the question?
Mehrnousch Zaeri-Esfahani: I can't say anything professional about that. I am neither a politician, nor a general, nor a sociologist, nor a psychologist. But I know with certainty that you can't talk about "passive" or "exiled messiah" here. So many Iranians of all classes, ethnicities, and all religious and political persuasions have been looking in only one direction for four months in the diaspora. Direction of light and hope. Many of us are on the verge of exhaustion and more active than ever. I have the feeling that hardly anyone would still trust a messiah or give all the power.
I was five years old during the last revolution I witnessed in Iran. In retrospect, I just think: What good did it do us to be directed and wonderfully choreographed at that time, by Western actors such as the British BBC? What good did it do to have a charismatic leader, Khomeini? We all know the answers. Perhaps we all feel that centralization would be precisely hamstring.
Although the Western media pay tribute to the revolutionary movement in their annual reviews, overall coverage seems to be declining in intensity. What to do about it?
Susan Zare: In the coming weeks, it will continue to be a matter of communicating that this is precisely a long road and not a short one; by its very nature, the media attention span is never long. That's why we have to continue to convey what this revolution could also mean for Germany, continue to try to make the complexity of the matter itself tangible, and also continue to try to keep the current points in the leading media. As someone who works as a presenter and journalist myself, I believe that a lot of this will continue to happen in the editorial offices themselves, and it will continue to be a matter of building bridges and setting themes here.
Basstard: Of course, the media always want something new. If someone is executed every few weeks, it is, as harsh as it sounds, no longer relevant enough for the media at some point. It's not always in our hands, but we can also be proactive and create new headlines through media-generated actions. We can draw the media's attention to our own research, because many of them don't even have the capacity to dig as deep into the issue as we do.
Mehrnousch Zaeri-Esfahani: Of course, serious media cannot report here regularly. It would be absolutely naïve to expect them to do so. People who want to get information can do so on various channels and online. The major newspapers and broadcasters have entire media libraries filled with everything that can be known and experienced. Nothing needs to be done here at all. Besides, constant reporting would exhaust people here. We all know that many people here feel a certain powerlessness in the face of all the suffering that is reported to them from the world. Powerlessness leads to fear, and fear drives people into the arms of radical groups and saviors. People here need to hear more from the media about the power and beauty of the Iranian revolution, about this global reawakening.
Isabel Abedi: I just came from a demonstration that took place today in many places, on the day that marks the third anniversary of the shooting down of plane PS752. I was also at a demonstration yesterday, on the day of the execution of Mohammad Mehdi Karami and Mohammad Hosseini. I sincerely hope that the coverage will pick up again. And: There is not only horror. There is also so much love. Chocolates, flowers, and little messages distributed on the streets - or carried out of the prisons into the world. The symbolism behind it all. Poetry. Literature. Music. Dance. The outreach here in the diaspora. The immeasurable work of people like Daniela Sepehri, Marjam Clasen and Mina Khani for political sponsorships. The tireless reporting of people like Gilda Sahebi, Susan Zare and so many others. The strength that Düzen Tekkal and Hawar help give us all every day with their contributions. And all the "little" people who contribute so much in the unrecognized. I would think of 1001 topics that the German press could report on.
What may be the next stop for activists abroad?
Susan Zare: I think it will continue to be about showing unity and showing the people of Iran that we see them here. In the current steps, I think it will be mostly about political pressure. It's about asking Europe's policy to put pressure quickly and consistently through stronger sanctions and a real end to communication with the regime.
Basstard: Increase the pressure on the Islamic Republic by, for example, putting the IRGC on the terror list. We need to cut off the money tap to the mullahs so that their machinery stops. They have an incredibly large number of accomplices who are on the payroll, so if the payments stop, their legitimacy goes down and the whole system could implode. I think that's the most effective help we can provide from abroad.
Mehrnousch Zaeri-Esfahani: There are no milestones. It's a matter of continuing in the here and now with all the important petitions, such as listing the Revolutionary Guards on the terror list or advertising for sponsorships. It is a matter of continuing upright and getting through each day emotionally and becoming stronger with each pain, forging the weapons that we can forge here. The stages are given to us by our brothers and sisters in Iran.
Well-known Iranian opponents of the regime, such as former Crown Prince Reza Pahlevi, Nobel Peace Prize winner Shirin Ebadi, women's rights activist Mahsi Alinejad, actress Golshifteh Farahani and activist Hamed Esmaeilion, have apparently formed a new opposition alliance. How do you assess the prospects?
Susan Zare: I find it difficult to pass judgment on that. First of all, it must be said that their appearance in unity sends a strong message to Iranians at home and abroad. Since here by these personalities different political camps show: We are pulling together for a common goal. At the end of the day, we have to say again and again: In Iran and also in worldwide hidden places, there are so many political, intellectual individuals that are in great danger right now. I think that if the revolution has been advanced, we will hear more from them and also from the country itself, many people will find themselves working together for a political future for the country. If that happens together with heads of the diaspora, we will have to see then.
Basstard: Basically, this is positive news. Personally, I don't think Reza Pahlavi is particularly credible because he and his family have never dealt critically with their past, and I think he is also the biggest weak point of this coalition, but I still want to try to look at it impartially and see how it all develops. It certainly wasn't easy to come to a consensus, and as long as no one is seeking power and the concern of this opposition is to enable the overthrow towards democracy, I don't want to complain.
Mehrnousch Zaeri-Esfahani: This coalition is a step that I would not have even dared to dream of. The people themselves say that they do not want to govern. This is what I would like to see. Only the people who live in Iran can build a democracy and govern. If they are serious about this - and I trust these actors in the coalition are - they have created a milestone of successful revolution at home and abroad. The world now sees that we Iranians in the diaspora are serious.
Isabel Abedi: This is where I find it very difficult to answer. As far as I am concerned I still have to live the question, I have to listen a lot, read a lot, collect many opinions - and ask many, many questions. For example: whether it would not be necessary to find members from exile who actively represent the interests of the marginalized in Iran? In general, I would like to see more people asking questions before they immediately flood us with opinions. And instead of "assessing" what is happening right now, I would much rather "appreciate" that so much is happening right now.